Each generation has its own values and expectations, and COVID is continuing to shape how Gen Z thinks and interacts as employees and customers.
Shaina Zafar, co-founder and CMO of JUV Consulting, has built a business around being an expert in everything Gen Z.
Each generation has its own values and expectations, and COVID is continuing to shape how Gen Z thinks and interacts as employees and customers.
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Scott Case 0:00
Welcome to Founders Focus, a podcast made for founders by founders. I'm Scott Case, CEO and co-founder of Upside, and I created Founders Focus to help share free resources and actionable advice. Together we're building a community for business leaders, entrepreneurs and founders to come together to tackle today's challenges. This podcast is powered by my awesome team at Upside. Please visit foundersfocus.com to join the live video sessions or to catch up on past topics.
Scott Case 0:27
We're joined by Shaina Zafar, who is the co-founder and CMO of Juv Consulting. And their business was started pretty recently, we're going to learn more about it, focused all about Gen Z both customers and employees. But before we dive into that, Shaina, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?
Shaina Zafar 0:52
Hi everyone, really excited to be here. I'm Shaina. I am 21. It feels really gross to acknowledge that I'm no longer in my early 20s, I am, but being 21 itself definitely hit me different. I am a current senior at the University of Pennsylvania, I graduated 34 days, and I've been working full time and going to school full time. So I am the CMO and co-founder at Juv where we do purpose driven marketing work that engages young brands to understand Gen Z and authentically reach our audience. And when I'm not working or going to school and procrastinating some of my schoolwork for, other work purposes, I'm a huge music fan, Spotify over Apple Music every single day, and a huge foodie. So I'm trying to hit as many restaurants in Philadelphia that I can in then next 34 days before I'm out of Philly, so really excited to be in your company. And it's a beautiful day in Philly. So I'm feeling great and very, very energized to be with you all.
Scott Case 1:48
We should bottle up some of that energy, we could sell it as a separate product. So we're glad to have you. You talked a little bit about being in school, but maybe tell us how you ended up creating Juv, and why did you start the company? How did you get there? Just tell us a little bit about that origin story.
Shaina Zafar 2:10
Yeah, I think for all of us, especially I think in high school, like there's an archetype of those type a high school students that are looking to create something for the sake of creating it. And when I was in high school or even in early college spaces, it was really quick realization that oftentimes you see my background, right, young people like you talk about us, but you don't talk directly to us. And especially when it comes to policy spaces or business, or even corporate governance and the way that business and society functions, it's this attitude that young people are important and relevant in the future generation to lead on our legacies. but we're not treated as partners. So out of this need of understanding that clearly there's a really clear space and market for understanding young people that just doesn't actually authentically engage with us. We have opinions, we can legitimately speak on issues. And if that's the case, like why not go to the primary source that you were taught in kindergarten, to be the legitimate authority on the work that you care about.
Shaina Zafar 3:08
So it really came from this genesis of wanting to be aware of the fact that Gen Z isn't a monolith. And if you want to understand our generation, like you want to have diverse voices, like even that notion of Gen Z experts isn't something that I believe in. There are people on my team that are much more compelling and interesting and can share stories and evidence of their own lived experiences that add nuance to the way that we see the world. But all of it to say that if we want to understand any group of people, you should go to the source that's closest to it. So that's really what our initial need came out of, and that was based on the experience that myself and quite a few of my co founders also found ourselves in spaces where we were commenting on relevant issues to young people and being in these big spaces, but it felt like we shouldn't be the only ones, right? So navigating those conversation pieces was kind of how Juv basically emerged.
Scott Case 4:00
And when did you start the company?
Shaina Zafar 4:01
In 2016. We actually re-incorporated when I joined the team. So there was a period when I wasn't active in the company. I met my co founder at a Model UN Conference in college. We were in the same committee and I got first place, he got second place. And then he said you should come join my company. And I was like, I'm not joining a college freshman who does he think he think he is? And then I did end up doing it. And I've been there ever since. Which is why when we re-incorporated the company like we were able to kind of start from a fresh slate but we've been we just turned five so we're like toddler age now. We just turned five two months ago.
Scott Case 4:40
That's awesome. You know, it's funny you bring up going to the source. As an entrepreneur, and especially people with a product mindset, being unbelievably curious about people and their problems, that's what we build products for. Right? We build solutions for human beings.
Scott Case 4:58
And one of them my past times with my children that they did not like very much was I was like the inquisitor with their friends. So their friends would come over, I'd give them a ride in the car. and I'd say, oh, what are you using your phone for and why are you choosing to use Snapchat? And how do you use it? Who are your friends and how often you do it? And my kids are shaking their heads, going dad not again.
Scott Case 5:20
But to your point, if you actually want understand what's going on, you have to actually talk to the people who are living the lives, not trying to read about it. And so any entrepreneur that's engaging with really any demographic that you think could be your customer or prospect, actually talking to them is really important.
Scott Case 5:37
So let's dive in a little bit. We're going to talk about Generation Z. And like all labels for things, it's probably overly broad, inaccurate, and doesn't really represent all the individuals that make it up. But it's a helpful mechanism to at least understand a generation. So what is your working generation at Juv that you use when you're talking to other marketers or you're talking to employers? What sort of the definition and sort of what are the high level attributes that we should keep in mind?
Shaina Zafar 6:12
Yeah, so the way that we define Gen Z is born after '96. There's a little bit of debate on like what the cusp or the cut off is, but we define it as being born after the years of 1996. We're 30% of the population so we're the largest generational cohort. We control $143 billion within the marketplace. And that doesn't even include the familial spending influence that Gen Z has. And our average attention span is eight seconds. So it doesn't mean that we can only focus for eight seconds, but it does mean that you have eight seconds to capture my attention and make me engage in whatever it is that you want me to care about.
Shaina Zafar 6:44
And ultimately, some of the things that we tend to parse out is the differences between Gen Z and millennials. To your point about social media and Snapchat within itself with your own kids, millennials are digital natives, but Gen Z are social media natives, so we've never had to reconnect with anyone. Social media has revolutionized the way that you're able to engage with people and create communities and platform and explore your identities within itself. Whereas a lot of millennials are using it to reconnect with old friends. You'd see millennial posts a selfie with a sunset in the background, and like the camera angle is so close to them, and like Gen Z would never, we would never post something like that. So even in the way that we're using these mediums and platforms is drastically different.
Shaina Zafar 7:22
But I think to that same point, like Gen Z is dubbed the generation of plurals. We are the we generation and Millennials are oftentimes like the I generation. It's like, how can I do something? How can I create impact and all those things are taken into consideration. Whereas for Gen Z, irrespective of even like, your politic or what you might believe to be true, there are like these core sentiments, core values and experiences that we can show up for that aren't just isolated to how we're living our lives, but instead for the communities that are in your surrounding areas or within your own spaces. So this notion of community is so central to Gen Z as well, which I think has been a really unique opportunity that's like created nuanced experiences for us, especially when we're exposed to so much stimuli from like being the generation that grew up with 9/11, like the 2008 economic recession and now a pandemic. There's so many things that have pivotally like created a sense of distrust for Gen Z, but also made that acknowledgement of how can we disrupt spaces? And how can we use our own personal privilege to create agency further, and that I think every generation has pushed the status quo, but I think because of technology and social media, Gen Z is so uniquely primed to create change and galvanize in a way drastically different than before.
Scott Case 8:41
So that notion of we versus me, and that construct around the social aspect of it, there's both the positive energy comes with it. But there's also a dark side to that, right, that constant exposure to your point about that need for stimulation all the time or maybe being overwhelmed by it. What have you observed about that sort of the dark side of the equation for Gen Z, and how is that shifting?
Shaina Zafar 9:15
Yeah, I mean, 10% of Gen Z believe that the country is working as it should be, according to the Harvard Institute of Politics in the youth poll that they observed. So I think the reality is that you're always caught in a lot of moral inconsistencies and moral contradictions for Gen Z. Like we're very hopeful and excited for the future, but at the same time, cynical and upset that we have to take on the burden of climate change or issues that generations prior might have enhanced for us. And now we're expected to become these arbiters of future success and like legacy building where it's also something you have to take into account is how we've gotten here, right? Whether it's climate change, whether it's foreign strife or even what's happening now, right what happened in Minneapolis yesterday, and like as we're facing this pandemic, this health pandemic, we're simultaneously going through this social justice revival where like black activists have been doing this work since like the inception of this country, but because you need white allyship or because you needed to reach this precipice of absolute dismay, and really, I think, in that same regard, a moment of like, wow, like what the fuck in some ways, like it really took this long for more people to care about these issues when other people have been doing work for like decades and years, centuries prior? That is defeating for Gen Z.
Shaina Zafar 10:39
And I think something has been interesting and what like we've gotten to see, especially even I think in the social justice space, is that we did this like Gen Z debates when the election cycle was happening, we asked like four different Gen Z-ers from different political leanings, like reformist, abolitionist, a leftist, conservative and everyone from the different political spectrums. And we asked them, like, do you believe in black lives matter? And like every person said, Yes. We said, Do you believe in climate change? Every person said, Yes. And then we asked them, How are you going to vote? And one person said they were going to vote for democrat party and other person was voting for a republican party, there was another person who was not voting at all, and another person was voting third party, but when you ask them about the issues that they genuinely cared about, every single person said, I believe these values to be true intrinsically. So all of it to say that it was very eye opening for me as someone who was really sort of engaged and like I don't understand if another young person wouldn't choose to vote. In my mind, it's like your civic duty, it's a privilege, it's powerful, and you should exercise your agency, especially when other folks might not be able to do that same thing. But in the same way, voting isn't the only way that you can show up for your civic duty or to show up for the issues that you care about, right? There's nuance to everything. And I think that type of acknowledgement, or even seeing a black conservative woman be the one that said I was voting for the republican individual was shocking to me, but it was her truth and she had her reasons for doing what she wanted to do. And I think in those ways, like, we're seeing so much polarization in public and private spaces, you can't not like isolate that from the fact that there are still intrinsic values that are like true, like the human condition of all the experiences we're going through. And you're seeing that across politics, across healthcare, across business, and academia in a lot of ways.
Scott Case 12:30
Do you think that Gen Z is more or less tolerant as a result of that? The dissonance there, right, here it is, I have this background, I have a demographic piece, and yet, I might act in ways that for other reasons are viewed by the outside is inconsistent, right? Is there greater tolerance or is there more of the kind of cancel culture like hey, if we don't like something, we're gonna dump on those people and not tolerate them? And where does that play out?
Shaina Zafar 13:07
I think there's frustration that's inherently just present constantly. And there are specific spaces and spheres of influence that amplify that further.
Shaina Zafar 13:17
So if you even look at the case of social media, when I think about TikTok and why I can spend literally seven hours on the platform, it's because TikTok inherently like makes me happier, even if it's something that is spicy politically or a hot take or a brand just pushing out something that they're doing for their campaign. I enjoy the content and it doesn't make me feel like defeated or sad or upset after the fact, oftentimes Tik Tok is informative and you're learning about like world issues or learning a new skill, or you're just getting to see someone rant about boys and like toxic relationships and it's like a good laugh in the moments. All encompassingly, though, it does make me overwhelmingly feel positive.
Shaina Zafar 13:56
Whereas a space like Twitter, even though oftentimes Twitter is the first place that I go to like see some of my like news headlines, and then I go into news app or go and actually like read articles at different publications, Twitter will leave me with like a sour taste in my mouth at times, it's very much so boiled up into like pitting x person against y person, or there are people in college who have like burner fake Twitter accounts where it's not like the professional external facing Twitter, where they're just tweeting about like their frustrations with school, with institutions, with politics, right? And it feels like a safe space for you personally, because you're getting to speak your truth. But in reality, like anytime almost disproportionally when I am on Twitter, I see things that are triggering, that feel like they're not there to actually create any sense of value or positivity but just to add fuel to the fire and to what means, right, like that would be the question that I would ask, but I think in a lot of ways because Gen Z is so much so frustrated it manifests in different ways.
Shaina Zafar 14:56
But at the same time, like, disproportionately as a generational cohort, we don't claim that we don't see color, right? Like we acknowledge that we are beautiful because of our many colors. Because we are this community based ecosystem of sorts, right? It's easier to acknowledge the fact that there will be similarities or differences amongst groups, but at the end of the day, like those are things that can in aggregate make us better. Which is something that I think Gen Z like does truly and fundamentally believe. And in a lot of ways, political polarization today comes down to like power politics or even in the business world, it's about the bottom line, it's about revenue, it's about profit sharing, and I think young people are coming in and saying, like, stakeholder theory is flawed, it's about shareholders that come in your society and in politics and government and individual actors and employees. So we're really here to shift some of those norms that we've seen the present for so long, which means that we're becoming less tolerant, but I think a lot of people assume that Gen Z is lazy and apathetic. When in reality, like, we are creating systems of change or theories of change, and it's not just us complaining per se, because ultimately, though, like, we will have to become the people that continue on to change these systems. So that responsibility is very heavily felt by young people, but that doesn't mean it's not taxing mentally or socially or emotionally as well.
Scott Case 16:19
I'll pick up on a thread that came up in the chat that that you brought up. There's this acceptance of multiple digital identities. Some are my authentic self, who I am, and others are our avatars. I think one of our children, like a minute and a half after Instagram came out, it was, I've got a finsta account, what's a finsta account? Yeah, that's my fake Instagram account that I get to use for all this stuff that I don't want people to know about, or that I only want a small group of people to know about, but then I have my public persona. How does that fracturing jive with your point about speaking your truth and being your authentic self and having all those pieces and at the same time, I've got these other fractured parts that I'm managing on top of it all?
Shaina Zafar 17:12
Yeah, I think we all self regulate, though, right? If I ask you the person that you are at work versus the person you are with your friends or the person you are with like your significant other, there's changes in the ways that we tend to moderate our behaviors and our emotions. So that's not necessarily something that's just unique to young people.
Shaina Zafar 17:28
But social media does create a lot of pressure. And we can talk a lot about the positive elements and negative elements of these platforms. But disproportionately even when I think about some of the qualms that I have with social media platforms, it's not like you're not being authentic if you're posting on your rinsta versus your finsta, those are both true parts of yourself but you're choosing to moderate it or regulate it because you care more about your the way that your feed looks publicly. Or even in the way that we're seeing platforms now like taking away likes, or I don't know why Instagram has created the shop function, but they have, like there are obviously changes that social media platforms are also deciding to take on as they evolve. But I think individuals aren't stagnant either. So it's not as if I'm taking away or creating this duplicitous mentality of sorts, but it's much more so like, having your finsta like it's easier to engage, right? It's exciting to ask a poll to your closest friends and be like, guess who I just saw for dinner or like I'm going on a date what should I wear? Like, I don't need my 2,000 Instagram followers necessarily give me their opinion because I do want to close network group or close circle of friends to do that. And even on TikTok that's become something that we've seen - like FikFok is something that like creators are doing. So like they have their own main like Addison Rae can have her main page where she has like millions of followers, like doing all the dances, going off. And then, a like a smaller space for people who are like truly Addison's fans to, like, follow her and get BTS footage and engage with her. So it's creating these like new enclaves of followings and engagement with people as well, which I think is exciting. And not necessarily like, meant to be like, Oh, I'm like hiding parts of myself, it's like, No, I'm choosing to communicate different parts and things that are interesting in my life as a conscious effort. So that's how I think Gen Z is navigating those ideas of being authentic and transparent, but also like public facing and external facing.
Shaina Zafar 17:38
I think you made a really good point. We all dress up or moderate and modify our behaviors in certain contexts. And digital isn't really any different. I actually have multiple Instagram accounts. And one of them is just my family and I only allow people to follow me that's in the family and I only follow people that are in the family because I want to go there and just see the people that I really want to make sure I'm keeping up with to see what's going on with them. And it's just using the tool to provide you the experience that you want is a perfectly reasonable way to play it.
Scott Case 19:55
So you talked about having short attention spans. I think attention spans across the digital spectrum have collapsed anyway. I mean, it's shorter and shorter. If you look at a film from 15 years ago that you could remember as Wow that was a fantastic movie, and then you look at it today in the context of movies or tv shows you watch now, it's like in slow motion it feels like.
Scott Case 20:17
And I'm curious. We're gonna shift to the the workplace. We're now operating with, in many companies, four generations of people all working together, and the pandemic has kind of collapsed everything, right, we're all here on Zoom, right? We're in these spaces now where the chair of the board who might be in their late 60s, early 70s, and the CEO who might be in their 50s, and then the director of marketing or the VP might be in their 30s, and then the newest individual contributor who just graduated from college is now a participant in the social media team. And yet we're all together.
Scott Case 20:57
If you're a leader, and you're looking at the those generational mixes, what do we need to know when we think about bringing in the Gen Z-ers into this world given all the things that you've shared? What's the best way or what's important to make the environment as effective for them as possible and to have them be able to grow inside our businesses to become the next leaders of our business?
Shaina Zafar 21:24
Yeah, I mean, Gen Z-ers that are entering the workforce is like 61 million Gen Z-ers that are expected to enter the job market. And with that massive statistic, I think it comes with some of the generational taxes that I talked about earlier, too, right? Like a $1.3 trillion student debt crisis plagues Gen Z, right, at that same time that's influencing even the way that we think about the future of work, especially with COVID-19 because of our expectations of the values and things that we hold core to the way that we want business to function and the places we want to work. But simultaneously with this reality of like, COVID-19 is like the 2008 recession, I would argue for young people, right? You're entering a marketplace where you don't have definitive ideas of what's going to happen economically, or what's going to happen with vaccine distribution, or when do we return to an old normal and honestly an emergence of a new normal.
Shaina Zafar 22:17
Future of work conversations have become so so prevalent, but I think there's a lot of mismatch in terms of what companies claim to be doing for their employees versus how they're actually engaging with issues and ideas that would be important to their employer force. For example, like diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging has become something that like companies are leaning more and more into, and you changing your logo to the pride flag during Pride Month means nothing to me and is an empty statement if your actual infrastructure within your company isn't reflective of diverse voices. When we're thinking about like Black Lives Matters and when companies and brands come up with statements then, like posting a black square means absolutely nothing or stopping asian hate, posting a yellow square means absolutely nothing. Even when we're seeing individuals and consumers do that or when we're seeing brands that have shown in their previous track record that they weren't like donating their capital or their platforms to these types of communities, there is a sense of call out and friction. And I think more and more, even if young people are choosing more traditional roles, let's say finance or consulting or at least at elite universities, especially with there's a pipeline for those type of business corporate roles, they're going to leave within one to two years and be ready to pivot out of it because people are unhappy and because people are understanding that unless businesses are also choosing to create changes in their norms and behaviors. Now people are gonna call that out.
Shaina Zafar 23:44
And what's also unique about Gen Z is that independence is a key characteristic that they want in the workplace, right? Like while millennials tend to prefer a constant collaboration and open private spaces, Gen Z tends to actually prefer private spaces, but that doesn't necessarily mean that we don't enjoy going happy hour with our co workers or we don't enjoy being in collaborative spaces. It just means that we're also able to manifest working in those private spaces. And even when we've asked and pulsed our own independent contractors and employees at Juv and said would you prefer to be completely in person or work from home, it was like a mixed model approach. People don't like being completely virtual, because it is important to see people face to face, but a lot of ways that type of flexibility is really important for young people, as well. And 50% of Gen Z'ers do prefer face to face interaction over emails and instant messaging. So yeah, we will text our friends and keep up with them and those like methodologies as well, but that face to face interaction is still really, really crucial for Gen Z. But that independence and that sense of community or interaction is paired with what we expect from company culture. And I think the culture of companies and workplace is going to be a major contributor to how fulfilling your work life will be, and having a positive workplace experience is becoming more and more relevant as we think about cultural fits for young people as well. So whether that's through wellness, whether that's through digital resources, or whether that's just through the way companies are operating, I think Gen Z is doing their homework and the expectations for workplaces only going to further evolve, especially now that COVID-19 has transformed the way that we're seeing businesses conduct their employee relationships.
Scott Case 25:26
And the concept that you as a leader can somehow control the perspective of what's going on inside your business. We're all operating in glass enclosures, everybody can see everything, the data is all there, there are no secrets. And so if you don't shift to actually doing the things you say you're going to do and delivering against them, you're not going to be able to retain employees and you're not going to retain customers either. So I want to shift to that.
Scott Case 25:57
So on the employee side, there's this tension between I've got this debt, I need to get a job, I need to be employed and I'd like to be in a place where they sort of allow me to be who I want to be and who I need to be and to contribute in a way.
Scott Case 26:10
As customers, as prospects. I know you work with a lot of both large companies and startups about reaching Gen Z as a customer base. What are the two or three things that we should all keep in mind when we are trying to encourage Gen Z to participate in or leverage our products and services?
Shaina Zafar 26:34
Yeah. So I clearly care a lot about impact. And a lot of the things that I've said aren't divorced of my identity and my own personal politic, right, as a Muslim, as a person of color, as a woman. And though part of those parts of my identity like are quite crucial to even the way that I see businesses or the world around me. And like, I think people want to see the world reflect the things that you believe to be true and the identities and truths that you hold to be true.
Shaina Zafar 27:00
And for Gen Z, some of the core things that we really we really talked about in our work is like, how are we socially conscious consumers. Gen Z values the buzzwords that you'll hear around authenticity, around identity, and of consumption to us, I think now means self expression. So as society becomes increasingly open minded, so should our favorite brands. 70% of Gen Z-ers say that it's important to define causes related to their identity. 70% of Gen Z-ers also say that they prefer to buy from brands that they deem ethical. 61% of teens prefer to buy gender neutral items. So these whole ideas of like expectations that we've had to put people in buckets and categories is really fading away with Gen Z.
Shaina Zafar 27:41
And it's interesting and exciting to be able to experiment and try new things, whether that's in the consumer retail space, or with CPG goods, or whether that's in sustainability, and how we're seeing this trend transparency revolution really coming about in terms of what Gen Z expects to happen. But I do think there's moral inconsistency. Like while you might feel a certain way about a brand or fast fashion or unsustainable practices, if you needed something in two days or conveniently or easily shipped to you or given to you, you would probably choose maybe an option that might not be the most ethical or sustainable.
Shaina Zafar 28:14
And sustainable options also come with this reality of privilege. If you want to engage in a sustainable brand, it's probably going to be more expensive and not everyone has that access to socio economic equity in some ways. So I think businesses needs to be much more mindful of those moral and consistencies, and then understand how can we create alternative solutions that are accessible? Because it is possible, and changes the supply chain and product are difficult. But in the long term, it's been shown that the upside in research studies and academic studies can be beneficial long term in terms of playing the long game instead of the short game. But those are some of the things that I think are crucial to understanding Gen Z now is that piece of those moral consistencies paired along with the fact that we do care about the issues and we do care about our identity and ourselves. So how are you showing up for those things as well?
Scott Case 29:09
A big part of it is just acknowledging that they're there, hey, look, we can't get all the way there right now so here's what we're doing today and here's what we're going to work on tomorrow and laying out a plan and executing on it, whether that's big or small. And there is a tension there, right? Like, it's nice to press a button and have Uber Eats deliver your dinner, but there's a cost to all of that that goes along with it. So just recognizing that that's part of that's part of reality, as opposed to hiding from it or pretending that it's not there, it's really important.
Scott Case 29:40
So I'm curious from a staying within that purpose driven sort of social impact view or lens, there's a lot of buzzwords, I've spent the last 20 years working on in part of my life on social change efforts and when you have that much perspective, you sort of can suss out the, frankly, bullshit from the real stuff. So, Gen Z has a pretty, pretty good antenna for sniffing out the bullshit. What are sort of the key real truths that are important for people to get real about and not avoid all the buzzwords. Is it about making progress? Is it about, actually, just acknowledging that this is a thing, and we're gonna work on it together? What's important to cut through that sort of the BS and get to the get to that truth?
Shaina Zafar 30:46
I would say that it's been too long for us to simply idly say that we're going to talk about the issues without enacting on them. And if you think about the people that come top of mind when you think about Gen Z influencers or activists, it's like the Greta Thunbergs of the world. And I would argue that no matter how wonderful the work that she's doing, she started when she was literally as a young teenager doing this advocacy kind of work. And it's outrageous in some ways that someone that young had to care about these issues. It's that there are hundreds and 1000s of stories of people who are like Greta that we just don't see on the headlines. And behind the scenes, there are so many groups and organizations and grassroots movements that are happening, and mobilization that's happening every single day, but irrespective of my personal qualms with capitalism, I believe that it is a system that we are stuck with. And if that is the way that we're operating, like what does it look like to create regenerative capitalism rather than extractive capitalism, creating these theories of change that are really leaning into the fact that there are individual actors that can create mass mobilization, but the way that we can actually combine communities and come together or think about issues in a way of Human Centered Design, right, putting people first is the most salient way of enacting change. And I think a lot of Juv's ethos comes in that too, right? Like putting people first approach or a value centered approach to then create your methodology. And I think that's where I see business going, is that you care about people, you care about planet, you care about purpose, and you do it in a way that you're able to not only hit your revenue goals, hit your profit goals, like empower your employees because the livelihoods of so many people depend on the work that you're doing. But do something that makes your soul feel good, right.
Shaina Zafar 32:40
And I think young people are done talking about the issues. We know what's plaguing us. We know that climate change is important. There could be literal countries that could be underwater by the year 2050. These are not new realities, like the literature is there. It's not the time to deny that these truths are happening, but it is the time to put your money where your mouth is in a lot of ways. And that's not just on business, it's on government, and it's on individuals to. So all of it to say that I think that the way that we think about impact now should just be in this chain reaction of sorts.
Shaina Zafar 33:07
We already know what's plaguing us, so then what can we do to actively reshift the narrative to be centered towards action and bring young people into those conversations, right? Ask them. You might think that the biggest issue that someone in a specific community is facing is access to like education or like digital divide and inequities and WiFi, right, but it's like, no, in reality, I actually am having a really difficult time with a mental health well being, they're not even able to focus in school. So if you're not asking the right questions and coming to these people that are from these communities, you're not going to know what the best course or solution is, in general. So I think we're now reaching that point where we know these issues exist, like hyper segmenting out to the way that young people are intersecting with them, and then creating plans of action based on the narratives that you've heard to create purpose driven and human centered solutions in general.
Scott Case 34:05
So it's not just about identifying it and acknowledging and talking about it, but what actions are you putting in place and actually deliver against them and measure against it. One thing I talked to a lot of founders about is, if you actually care about these things, if you do goal setting in your organization, we use objectives and key results. Do you have OKRs that drive towards those same outcomes? Because they're not going to happen by accident. No different than if you're trying to hit a sales target in the quarter, you better have a plan for it. So how do you have a plan for these other things as well?
Scott Case 34:35
We're gonna go into our lightning round here. That means you get to answer in eight seconds or less because that's the attention span. No pressure, though, we'll give you all the way up to 12 if you need it. That's a special only for this round, though, because we like you so much.
Scott Case 34:50
Okay, so first question, how does your firm address ageism? So how do you advise people on both up and down the chain in terms of generations?
Shaina Zafar 35:01
Yeah, so our team, we are like everyone from 14 to 26. But we also have non-Gen Z-ers like 34, 35. So in terms of intergenerational dialogue, it's definitely something that we put at the core of the work that we do with our clients as well as the company within itself. And it's really pushed us to have people who are non-Gen Z-ers on our team. So that's how we navigate that, and we are possibly thinking about intergenerational dialogue as well.
Scott Case 35:24
Excellent. How does Gen Z like to be recognized and rewarded at work?
Shaina Zafar 35:30
It's a great question. There's a classic quote that I always talk about from Brenda Myers, like diversity is being invited to the party and inclusion is being asked to dance. So I would say that creating policies and creating systems where you're able to see yourself reflected in the space that you're in, and not just in a way that it's on my website or something that's like a corporate event of sorts, but genuinely, in your actual structure from your board meetings to your team members is the best way to show that you're showing up for people.
Scott Case 36:00
All right. How does a Gen Z-er do their homework when they're evaluating employers? What are the two or three things that Gen Z-ers will do to see if this is a place I want to work?
Shaina Zafar 36:13
Yeah, word of mouth, for sure. I think people really do their homework in terms of whether it's like coffee chat or reaching out to like alumni or people that are in their network, like word of mouth means everything. And then asking questions around company culture. Company culture, I think has just become much, much more important. And that comes from qualitative insights and things that aren't just like on Glassdoor or on the company website or annual report. So those would be the two things that I think are really influencing people's decisions.
Scott Case 36:38
So as you advise people on how to interact with from a customer standpoint, how does Gen Z think about privacy and security and personal information? What does a social native who's sort of sharing all the time want in terms of security or privacy or control?
Shaina Zafar 37:02
Yeah, that's a very, very good question. So Gen Z is actually more willing to give up their data for more personalized services. So a really good case example of this is like Spotify Wrapped, you know that Spotify has access to every one of your songs, and how much data and all of your actual behaviors with that, but the reason people are so willing to give it up is because it's a great offering output. So while we acknowledge that Facebook or Cambridge Analytica and all these things have happened, for a better service and offering Gen Z is willing to give up their data, which is seen through Tik Tok and how good their machine learning algorithm is. And then secondly, also with examples like Spotify, where everyone posts about their Spotify Wrapped, and that's all based on your data aggregation and like your own behaviors, and people know that but are completely fine with it.
Scott Case 37:45
So it's a trade of information for value as opposed to money for value. If you make it better for me, I'm willing to give up in order to gain.
Scott Case 37:53
Alright, last question, this is a softball for you, I'm sure you'll be able to handle it. We like to ask difficult questions around here. But this isn't one of them. Except that sarcasm is the thing. What would you like Gen Z to be known for? So it's 30 years from now and Gen Z gets to be known for what?
Shaina Zafar 38:15
Good question, oh, man, only eight seconds or 12 seconds or whatever. I think I would like our generation to be known as a generation that was both empathetic, but yet action oriented in the sense of, we think a lot about the divisions and the differences between millennials and Gen Z and all these things that can create out groups, but at the end of it all like it is about community and those in groups and creating narratives that bring in more people and make life better for the most amount of people is powerful. So I hope that people keep that cognizance, rather than just the fact that like, we're on our phones all the time, or we're on Twitter. I can tweet about Kim Kardashian and I can care about climate change.
Scott Case 38:59
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Founders Focus. What do you think? You got any feedback for us? Got a topic that you'd like us to discuss, or maybe a future co host? We'd love to hear from you. Just hit me up on LinkedIn at T Scott Case. And join us at www.foundersfocus.com to stay up to date with the latest episodes. And join us live every week at our Founders Focus sessions. Hope to see you there.